Curse

Angelina Collins · Feb 01, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

what destroyed GW, both PvE and PvP was the developers sole desire to "Balance" everything, it lead to PvE only skills and the down fall of PvP, by pissing off players.

Skill Balance in the end, destroyed GW itself, and lead to the development of GW 2, the only question is, will Anet learn from their mistake??

I have a good feeling they will by keeping PvP and PvE seprate from each other, both with game updates and skill balance.

Divinus Stella · Feb 01, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Posting this in the PvE part of a PvE forum doesnt make for a fair poll either.

GwG has never been a place PvP players like to visit.

Nessar · Feb 01, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

But, this game wasn't built around PVP or there would be more PVP players.

Actually if you pay attention to the proph missions, you'll see the missions are basically training grounds for HA. Factions, introduced AB. It wasn't exactly forced on players, but it was pvp. Then anet threw it all out the window with nightfall.

Legendm · Feb 01, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

When I was playing actively I mostly did PvE. I think the ratio of which I played each was 5:2. Nowadays, I try to get into PvE everyone once in a while, but its just too boring, since barely anyone plays so I just PvP in the random arenas. It keeps me on my feet.

glacialphoenix · Feb 01, 2009, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

I just cant comprehend how people can still PvE in this game. It's just 4 campaigns, all of which now can be done pretty much with henchies/heroes which ruins the 'mmo' factor of the game where you should team up with other players, and what's there to do after you beat the campaigns? What do you even gain out of it? I don't see how that's fun.

You can team up with friends, for one. Also, beyond titles - well, with friends I can hop around, redo some missions to help each other out - on different characters. Even if my chara is level 20, there's a lot more beyond that, no? It's fun to do something different. It's fun to dust off my ele or my necro and go do something. If it doesn't work, we can figure out what went wrong and try again. And I also maintain that the heroes thing was pretty much inevitable - people go for the best solution. When there weren't any heroes, you put up with the occasional noob because it was pretty much par for the course. Now there are heroes, so people have switched. And, you know - I enjoyed completing the campaigns the first time, but I didn't enjoy the gazillion times I redid missions because some guy finished the main objective before we could go for the bonus.

Divinus Stella · Feb 01, 2009, 07:04 PM // 19:04

I think one factor that killed PvE for certain people is the addition of heros and the viability of hench.

The part of PvE i enjoy most is playing with other people, doesnt matter how bad they are its still better than a team full of mute heros.
I tried making another PvE character recetly to play through missions but found that i was forced to do 90% of the game with heros because there was nobody willing to play, just seems a bit odd to me in a MMO that you should end up playing with NPC's.

thor hammerbane · Feb 01, 2009, 07:05 PM // 19:05

the vast majority is pve players...was a poll really necessary?

Bryant Again · Feb 01, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

and just where is 'your' documented evidence of that statement? you want to chastise me for using abstract assumptions of values and population and yet in the very same post you do the same. hahaha. No documents then don't even try to use the word "most" and don't even try to use some strawman comeback either. You only have as you said to me "your own experiences" to go by and you certainly don't represent "most". hahaha

So you admit you're wrong?

Wretchman Drake · Feb 01, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

I think one factor that killed PvE for certain people is the addition of heros and the viability of hench.

The part of PvE i enjoy most is playing with other people, doesnt matter how bad they are its still better than a team full of mute heros.
I tried making another PvE character recetly to play through missions but found that i was forced to do 90% of the game with heros because there was nobody willing to play, just seems a bit odd to me in a MMO that you should end up playing with NPC's.

this. not to mention when you start to add expansions for these kinds of games, you are literally adding a new world, not connected to the other and so you are splitting the population. thats why for example, Burning Crusade killed WoW PvE because everyone was split in two diff. land masses, therefore less people to do certain things.

Same thing here. Then they added heroes and everyone grouped with NPCs and did mindless quests. It's just kind of funny to see how a great game can just be abismally ruined by the addition of small things like that. As i've said, you people who group with heroes throughout the whole game don't know wat the hell PvE is in true MRPG's. might as well go get diablo 2 if ur gonna be an antisocial loser and play by urself with bots

Master Fuhon · Feb 01, 2009, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Why do people feel special when their answer wins in a popularity poll? It’s not like there is a correct answer to this type of question…

There are more meaningful ways to divide players to get better information to read into than just pve/pvp. I don’t know what the original poster intended to find out, but I can see that there are a few who are misreading the information to support their own agenda of attacking pvpers. I can divide the game into three major factions of players based on the changes/non-changes people would like to see made with the game, and there is considerable overlap between these groups and the modes that they play:

Group 1: Prefers to have optimal methods of getting achievement
These are the pve solo and team farmers, and the pvp rank farmers. They want to know how to get rich, get elite items, and win often. Many of these hate skill balances with a passion; they would prefer to see tweaks that make rewards easier to access. There is at least a portion of this group that prefers it when people leave the game; there would be less competition for achievement and less dealing with people who are struggling.

Group 2: Prefers to have more content
These are standard pve players or pvp players, probably even the casuals who don’t post on forums. They are perhaps getting bored with things and just need some variety within the game. Others want to group with people and try new parts of the game, but find too many obstacles in the way. They would prefer new zones or adjustments to the styles of play. Or they would just prefer easier access to the modes of play already in the game. Some skill balances introduce new methods of playing; other skill balances close off a path of the game that they would like available.

Group 3: Prefers to have balance/fairness in modes of play
These are some of the competitive pvp and pve players who usually seek out the skill balances more than anyone. They talk about nerfs/buffs in pve elite missions, gvg, HA, arenas, and heroes. They also talk about exploits or under-the-radar tactics that are being used to create a large gap between normal players and super-achievers.

So again, if you intend to read into things, do alot of reading before jumping to your conclusions. The fact that more players play pve over pvp is probably obvious: easier to get involved in, not truly dependent on other people, higher reward vs punishment ratio. It is foolish to assume that people who play pve wouldn’t play pvp if it was possible to revamp the atmosphere to be lower stress.

But it is even more foolish to think that people are staying because of ‘your’ particular side of the game. The more different styles of game play a game offers the more people will stick around. People have certainly left because their play styles are not fully supported by game design anymore. Dominant play styles prevailing are what kill games; because it turns them solely into niche activity. I find that group 1 is the most agressively vocal group (which almost leads me to think its the largest group left in the game) and they have been catered to the most for that reason.

PvE player, split my time watching observation mode PvP so I can multitask.

Div · Feb 01, 2009, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

Why do people feel special when their answer wins in a popularity poll? It’s not like there is a correct answer to this type of question…

There are more meaningful ways to divide players to get better information to read into than just pve/pvp. I don’t know what the original poster intended to find out, but I can see that there are a few who are misreading the information to support their own agenda of attacking pvpers. I can divide the game into three major factions of players based on the changes/non-changes people would like to see made with the game, and there is considerable overlap between these groups and the modes that they play:

Group 1: Prefers to have optimal methods of getting achievement
These are the pve solo and team farmers, and the pvp rank farmers. They want to know how to get rich, get elite items, and win often. Many of these hate skill balances with a passion; they would prefer to see tweaks that make rewards easier to access. There is at least a portion of this group that prefers it when people leave the game; there would be less competition for achievement and less dealing with people who are struggling.

Group 2: Prefers to have more content
These are standard pve players or pvp players, probably even the casuals who don’t post on forums. They are perhaps getting bored with things and just need some variety within the game. Others want to group with people and try new parts of the game, but find too many obstacles in the way. They would prefer new zones or adjustments to the styles of play. Or they would just prefer easier access to the modes of play already in the game. Some skill balances introduce new methods of playing; other skill balances close off a path of the game that they would like available.

Group 3: Prefers to have balance/fairness in modes of play
These are some of the competitive pvp and pve players who usually seek out the skill balances more than anyone. They talk about nerfs/buffs in pve elite missions, gvg, HA, arenas, and heroes. They also talk about exploits or under-the-radar tactics that are being used to create a large gap between normal players and super-achievers.

So again, if you intend to read into things, do alot of reading before jumping to your conclusions. The fact that more players play pve over pvp is probably obvious: easier to get involved in, not truly dependent on other people, higher reward vs punishment ratio. It is foolish to assume that people who play pve wouldn’t play pvp if it was possible to revamp the atmosphere to be lower stress.

But it is even more foolish to think that people are staying because of ‘your’ particular side of the game. The more different styles of game play a game offers the more people will stick around. People have certainly left because their play styles are not fully supported by game design anymore. Dominant play styles prevailing are what kill games; because it turns them solely into niche activity. I find that group 1 is the most agressively vocal group (which almost leads me to think its the largest group left in the game) and they have been catered to the most for that reason.

PvE player, split my time watching observation mode PvP so I can multitask.

I think this is a much better analysis of the situation (albeit still missing a bit) than how most simpletons think of the game.

Bryant Again · Feb 01, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

thats why for example, Burning Crusade killed WoW PvE because everyone was split in two diff. land masses, therefore less people to do certain things.

That's not entirely correct, since when BC was released level 60 content was no longer where you had to go to progress your character and Outland is only tailored for a specific level range.

A more accurate comparison is relating the seperation of outposts in Guild Wars to the number of servers in WoW because WoW'ers pay for more content, not for a low-pop world.

All in all, it's not just WoW'ers that want more areas to explore with their favorite character. It's what a lot of gamers want. Unfortunately it's also the win-lose situation for ANet's PvE crowd: more content, but more separation.

I don't blame the expansion of the gameworld in its entirety rather how strict the instancing is. A lot of problems could be solved if GW had a much more global and flexible search system.

Inde · Feb 01, 2009, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Because I was challenged to do this (and because some think the mods can't possibly close or delete any posts because we don't know how a thread is going to turn out) ... without even reading this thread, let me sum up past, present and future arguments this thread will spawn.

PvE sucks, you are all noobs who don't know squat about the game.
PvP sucks, you are all elitist jerks who are know-it-alls.
Guru sucks, PvP people don't like to go here.
Guru sucks, PvE people don't like to go here.
Guru doesn't represent even 1% of the actual player base so this poll is bogus.
This is a PvE forum, so this poll is unfair.
An argument on a skill or build.
A discussion on Warhammer, WoW, or some far fetched game that is not an MMO like Super Mario Brothers.
HA HA. +1

And no, I'm not even going to read the thread. Points will be awarded to the person who can find the corresponding comments to fit my assumptions.

That is all. Carry on.

Lord Sojar · Feb 01, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Because I was challenged to do this (and because some think the mods can't possibly close or delete any posts because we don't know how a thread is going to turn out) ... without even reading this thread, let me sum up past, present and future arguments this thread will spawn.

PvE sucks, you are all noobs who don't know squat about the game.
PvP sucks, you are all elitist jerks who are know-it-alls.
Guru sucks, PvP people don't like to go here.
Guru sucks, PvE people don't like to go here.
Guru doesn't represent even 1% of the actual player base so this poll is bogus.
This is a PvE forum, so this poll is unfair.
An argument on a skill or build.
A discussion on Warhammer, WoW, or some far fetched game that is not an MMO like Super Mario Brothers.
HA HA. +1

And no, I'm not even going to read the thread. Points will be awarded to the person who can find the corresponding comments to fit my assumptions.

That is all. Carry on.

This woman speaks truth. Also, I vote that this thread be made epic with lolCats. CHARGE!

Faer · Feb 01, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Inde is terrible let's gang up on her I heard she plays City of Heroes WHAT A SCRUB.

Eragon Zarroc · Feb 01, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

lol, popped into HA the other day and there was like 2 dis and 5 party searches. wtf? dieing if not already dead.

illidan009 · Feb 02, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Hah Inde's a genius...or just someone who has seen too many guru threads

I PvE primarily because I don't have time to devote to SRS BSNS PvP, while I could be running gimmicks, to me is just...crap. PvE is more laid back, I like to PuG b/c it gives some resemblance of a multiplayer game.

DreamWind · Feb 02, 2009, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

According to the poll you are completely wrong of course.

This poll in a PvE forum is sure to be accurrate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

But, this game wasn't built around PVP or there would be more PVP players. Thus PVE rules and PVP should take a backseat just like all the other mmorpgs out there. But, Anet chose to screw up Guild Wars on both sides of the fence and thus are losing players for both reasons. haha

It is amazing how misinformed some people are.

Master Knightfall · Feb 02, 2009, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

It is amazing how misinformed some people are about Guild Wars.

Yes it is, so, why don't you go and get informed. First go study what an RPG game really is first and foremost. You won't find a single line that says anything about PVP. It has always been PVE first and foremost. Perhaps you need to go back and study the first RPG manuals. To be perfectly frank real RPG is a dungeon master and then the adventurers. Only Neverwinter Nights Computer game ever mastered the total aspects of RPG.
Plus we've already had these arguements and polls many times and PVE has always won out over PVP and why people BOUGHT Guild Wars. The polls always show they hardly bought it first and foremost because of the PVP elements I don't care what the developer intended. Also the mass exodus of the populations speaks a lot about the whole game design and it's eventual failings.

Quote:

A discussion on Warhammer, WoW, or some far fetched game that is not an MMO like Super Mario Brothers

Well Diablo series really is the best of all time action RPG's ever made and Daggerfall is the ultimate best RPG ever made of all time with the largest area to explore and Ultima IV is the greatest RPG ever made with an actual purpose and most immersive feeling while playing to the end.

AKB48 · Feb 02, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Serious Pvp requires more devotion than a serious pve. Since not only do you need to pour time everyday to GW, you actually gotta pratice the builds, know what skill does what and when to use it etc. But in Pve it's usually just know the few metas and with enough Pve titles(Asura rank, Lightbringer rank etc) and you are good to go. A few expection is in areas like UW, where the players need to know what to do and the order npc/enemies pop up. But that's just memorization and take no more than a week to fully master(or so I think), whereas PvP changes, a good build today can be trash tomorrow, and a trash build from last week can be the meta next month